Solar Freaks

Hello all,

Well done to all the teams that participated over the weekend at the 2010 Australian-International Model Solar Challenge in WA. The event was hotly contested and there were some quick times and spectacular crashes. Although I didn't get a chance to sit in on scrutineering and have a good, up-close look at the cars, the quality of many of the vehicles from a distance looked to be of a high standard.

I will be cleaning up the weekend's results over the next couple of days and then upload them on here. The car data file with panel powers, chassis weights, etc, will maybe take a little longer since I have yet to be sent that information.

I believe that scrutineering photos were taken on Sunday morning and these should also make their way onto the web at some stage.

The top 4 in the car event were as follows:

1st - Mike Couanis, Aquinas College, WA
2nd - Blur, St Paul's Catholic College, NSW
3rd - Galaxy, Girrawheen Senior High School, WA
4th - HAZZ, St Patrick's College, Tas

These were the top 4 seeds from Saturday's round robin times (although not quite in that order).

The overall points award also went to Mike Couanis.

I'm not 100% certain of all of the car discretionary awards, but from memory, Stiletto from Moorebank HS were awarded best poster and best team uniform while the best engineered car award went to the Overengineered Velocitous Uber Machine.

I have video footage of all but 1 or 2 races (thanks Chris, Tony and Jun for the filming ) and will upload some of these in the coming weeks. If anyone was after a particular race then please let me know and I'll see what I can do.

In a couple of the short breaks between car rounds on Sunday, we stuck a mini keyring video camera on the 2009 test car and filmed a few laps. I'll see if I can also load that up.

Marc

Congratulations to Mike Couanis from Aquinas college for the victory.
Also congrats to St Pauls for the fastest lap time and second pl.

Good job to all the winners. It was a great weekend for racing, I don't think I saw a single cloud while I was in WA. I'd like to see the race between Tigger and SPERM which was a draw, if you've got a video of that one.

Hi Marc great event well done to the organizers and congratulations to all winners. If you have any video of the race between the two St Patrick's College cars HAZZ and Fabio on Sunday I would like to see that. Also if there are any video of the three crashes HAZZ had on Saturday that would also be great so we can watch it knowing that everything turned out alright for team HAZZ in the end.

I haven't had a good look yet, but I think that I should have all of those races. I'll try and get them up in the next day or two.

Below are the Round Robin results from Saturday and also the seeding. It's interesting to note that the top 3 seeds actually came from the same round robin group.


For those of you that were wondering about the formula used for seeding, it was derived based on national/NSW track data from the last 5 or so years. The file below contains this data and also 2 seeding curves which are supposed to follow the performance of a very good car in all conditions.


The new formula in the file was added after the low light results from this year's Sunsprint event were giving impossibly quick 100% predicted times with the old formula. This came of no real surprise since no great deal of data in those conditions had been available up until that point.
In the higher sunlights the 2 are virtually identical and so the simpler old formula (basic hyperbola) was used over the weekend.

Marc

Congratulations to all prize winners! The top 20 cars were separated by only 2 seconds! Very tight! Just one question for the boys from Aquinas College, who is 'Mike Couanis' and 'Nemphis Mensa'?

Thanks,

It's reassuring to see that my car got seeded 6th and had the 5th fastest time, rather than just being somewhere in the top 16. And like Karo said, 2 seconds between the top 20 is pretty impressive.

Congratulations to all involved and thanks to those who have passed on their good wishes.

Karo, Mike Couanis was a teacher at Aquinas who helped with the solar car program in the 1990s, when he passed away the car was named in his honour.

The name 'Nemphis Mensa' has been in use for many years and there are a few myths over what it actually means. We know it's Latin but we're not sure if it means 'smart person' or 'round table' or something completely different. The main thing is it sounds kind of cool and is completely original!

Congratulations on your win Redlands. A job well done and it was good to see another close final follow on from last year.

Below are the results from the knockout draw on Sunday.


Things more or less went to plan in terms of seeding where, except for 1 pairing in each of the first 4 rounds and 2 in the 5th round, all the winning cars turned out as expected (excluding seeds 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 reversing places). In the races where the car that was expected to win lost, most of the time it was due to something being wrong with the car or teams being disqualified for not stopping their cars in the designated stopping area.
I won't list who these cars were but you guys can probably work it out from having a bit of a look at the knockout draw. What I will say is that 14 of the top 16 seeds made the top 16 and 6 of the top 8 made the top 8. With one of these top 8 seeds that didn't make the final 8, 2 top 8 seeds had to race against one another in the 5th round (round of 16) due to one losing out in the second round when it wasn't supposed to. The other only just lost out to a lower seed by the narrowest of margins. Things may have turned out slightly different on another day, but hey, that's racing.
As mentioned in my first post in this thread, the top 4 seeds did all end up making the semifinals.

One thing to consider is that seeding was done over 1 lap whereas later rounds were raced over 2 laps which just isn't the same thing. The second placed car, Blur, was actually leading after the first lap in two of the races in the final.
It's looking likely that there will no longer be any 2 lap races next year at the nationals.

The sunlight % also dropped off in the later rounds and the sun had dropped to almost 70% for the final few races even though there was nothing but blue sky all around. This came of no real surprise since the last races were held after 3pm and WA doesn't have daylight savings. This will almost certainly have affected one or two things as well.

The fastest 1-lap time of the weekend went to Blur in a time of 16.27 seconds which, with what appeared to be somewhat of a head wind on the long straight, was a very quick time. Had there of not been any wind to contend with, I would not have been surprised to have seen it go under 16 seconds.

I have reviewed most of the video footage that I have from the weekend and there are also a number of instances where teams (even the top teams) have left their panel covers on for too long at the start gate or cast a shadow on their panel.
Start gate inhibit switches also appeared to cause one or two problems and I have a video clip or two of cars bouncing back and forth before the gate is opened. In my opinion they are just another cause for problems.

Marc

Thanks Marc, I thought all aspects of the competition were very well run.

I think it's a shame that there will be no more 2 lap races. Personally I don't find the one lap races as impressive because the cars spend half the lap getting up to speed and stability / efficiency aren't as important. It also reduces the need for teams to think about their gear ratio.

What is the reasoning behind removing two lap races?

Redlands wrote:Thanks Marc, I thought all aspects of the competition were very well run.

I think it's a shame that there will be no more 2 lap races. Personally I don't find the one lap races as impressive because the cars spend half the lap getting up to speed and stability / efficiency aren't as important. It also reduces the need for teams to think about their gear ratio.

What is the reasoning behind removing two lap races?

I have to admit that I don't mind the 2 lap races. They really test car stability in good sunlights and put the focus on car aerodynamics. Problem is that having both 1 and 2 lap races just isn't really fair when it comes to a single ballasting formula.

The aim of the ballasting formula is to attempt to even out panel powers over a particular racing distance for a standard car.
Lower powered cars have less power to overcome air drag and so end up having a lower top speed. Conversely, a higher powered car that has the same aerodynamics, but more power to overcome air drag, will be capable of reaching a higher top speed. In order to give the lower powered cars a chance, the higher powered cars are therefore made to carry a certain weight to slow down their acceleration. While the extra weight affects the acceleration of a car it however does little to slow its top speed.
Eventually there will then be a cross over point where the higher powered car will catch the lower powered car and this is where the ballasting formula comes into play. It aims to position this break-even point at around the end of a single lap.

What this all however means is that as soon as a race becomes any longer than a single lap and extends out to 2 laps, the higher powered cars then begin to be advantaged.
The transition from 1 lap to 2 lap races during an event is then effectively like changing the competition half way through and, as John Jeffery has put it in the past, it could almost be likened to playing AFL all season and then changing to soccer for the finals. It just isn’t the same thing.

So what can be done to make things fair? Well, all races could either be made to be 1 lap, 2 laps, or perhaps 2 different ballasting formulas used where cars would then need to be re-ballasted for when the 2 lap races begin.
Since reducing the last few rounds down to 1 lap is the easiest option, this is probably what will take effect.
Because races now officially end after the 1st corner in the designated stopping area, even 1 lap races now seriously test car stability as was seen in Fremantle over the weekend.
It is also possible that the national event will be held on the Tas track in 2011 which is 102m from gate to gate. With the downhill section to the first corner, that makes 1 full lap from start to finish more than 110m and this will make single lap races longer next year anyway.

Of course, the argument against reducing the 2 laps to 1 lap is do we really care about any advantage/disadvantage that is there and is there a need to make a change? Up until now we have seen that quality lower powered cars can still very readily win over 2 laps. It just makes it that little bit more difficult and car aerodynamics become even more important for those using lower power panels.
The solar challenge is yet to reach (and I doubt that it ever will) the level where panel power alone will determine how a car performs and a so good car will still win regardless of if races are 1 or 2 laps and what panel power is used.

Before finishing off, consider this. The number 1 seed at the 2010 national event, Blur, was consistently the quickest car over 1 lap. Yet over 2 laps, the number 2 seed and eventual winner, Mike Couanis, was the quicker car. The number 2 seed had 2W of extra power. So was its superior performance over 2 laps down to this extra power or some other reason? I guess we will never know.

Marc

Ok everyone, below is a file that I have put together detailing each car's performance over the weekend. You may find it to be of some interest.


The final car positions in the file are based firstly on where cars were knocked out in the main event and then secondly on the fastest predicted times that they posted during Sunday's knockout rounds using the seeding formula.

The car data file with panel powers, chassis weights, etc should be finalised over the next week.

Marc

Cheers Marc.

Thanks for those spreadsheets Marc
I found the data really interesting especially the fact that the top 2/3 of the cars were only separated much such a small time frame.

I find that not having 2 lap races is really disappointing. The whole point of the aerodynamics of the car becomes obsolete because without 2 lap races, they cars will never have to corner at speed which really shows the teams have thought about the physics of the car which i saw was a major factor in the build process.
Might as well be a show box on wheels because the car will never be pushed to its physical limit.

Looking forward to the car data filesss

Stiletto wrote:Thanks for those spreadsheets Marc
I found the data really interesting especially the fact that the top 2/3 of the cars were only separated much such a small time frame.

No problems Stiletto. Well done on your performance in WA by the way. It was great to see such an enthusiastic team take part and I hope that the Moorebank boys weren't too disappointed about you knocking them out. I think that they would have otherwise gone on to really challenge the top few cars in the 2 lap races.

Stiletto wrote:I find that not having 2 lap races is really disappointing. The whole point of the aerodynamics of the car becomes obsolete because without 2 lap races, they cars will never have to corner at speed which really shows the teams have thought about the physics of the car which i saw was a major factor in the build process.
Might as well be a show box on wheels because the car will never be pushed to its physical limit.

Not obsolete, but perhaps a fraction less critical in the overall scheme of car design since other factors such as car weight, steering, etc, begin to then become increasingly more important over a shorter racing distance.
Have you ever played around with Ian Gardner's model solar car simulator? The difference between a car with good and bad aerodynamics will still very easily be at least half a second over 1 lap. I see exactly the same result with my own simulator and, if you're still not convinced, just asked Karo who must of lowered his 1 lap car times by at least a second to win Sunsprint 2009 after he changed his car from having the 2L milk bottle across the body to length ways overnight between the first and second day of competition.

As you have pointed out, there was very little separating the top 2/3 of cars in WA and so, if you want to win, aerodynamics will still be an integral part of car design for next year. Having only 1 lap races just means that some other aspects of the car will become a little more important than what they are over 2 laps.
1 lap races not only need cars to reach a good top speed, but they also need good acceleration to get there as quickly as possible and this is done for a particular panel power by reducing the mass of the car chassis, reducing car wheel slip at the start of a race, selecting the correct gear ratio, etc.

The competition is still at a stage where the quality of a car will determine how it will perform and not the panel power. If everyone however started building brilliant cars and the whole 1 and 2 lap thing remained unchanged, then as soon as the races turned into 2 laps, all the high powered cars should win.
All else being equal, even low powered cars with very good aerodynamics will struggle against high powered cars with not so good aerodynamics.

Unless cars are ridiculously heavy and take about a year to get up to speed, they should have more or less reached their top speed by the time they are finishing the first lap. With the new designated stopping area that is now located after the first bend, cars will therefore still need to be able to corner at top speed if they want to stay on the track and do not want to be disqualified.

I do agree that it would be sad to see the 2 lap races go but I just can't see how we can make things fair for everyone if they are allowed to continue with a single ballasting formula.

My advice to everyone racing next year is just to take every little area of the car into account (don't overlook anything) and attempt to minimise your losses as much as possible. Remember, you are given a certain amount of power to work with and the car that will win will be the one that has wasted the least of it.

Marc

miseli wrote:just ask Karo who must of lowered his 1 lap car times by at least a second to win Sunsprint 2009 after he changed his car from having the 2L milk bottle across the body to length ways overnight between the first and second day of competition.

Your embarassing me Marc

Ye i misunderstood the rules and thought that the 2L milk carton had to fit both ways (across/the length of the car). I cut my car in half, and TADA! This is why you should read the rules PROPERLY guys! Visit 'www.solarkaro.com.au' for full details if you haven't already. Times went from 20.03 on day 1 to 18.01 on day 2, but to be honest, there were other little adjustments. 2 lap races are fun, but if you want to even out competition, is should be scraped. Can't say i love them, but they do bring the best out of cars and their builder/s.

miseli wrote:Before finishing off, consider this. The number 1 seed at the 2010 national event, Blur, was consistently the quickest car over 1 lap. Yet over 2 laps, the number 2 seed and eventual winner, Mike Couanis, was the quicker car. The number 2 seed had 2W of extra power. So was its superior performance over 2 laps down to this extra power or some other reason? I guess we will never know.

I agree that Blur was faster over one lap, but to be honest, Mike Couanis was never really geared correctly for a one lap race. When we raced Blur on seeding day we were much more interested in what would happen between the finish line and the stop zone rather than the actual one lap time because by that time we knew that we wouldn't have to face Blur until the two lap races.

Anyway, the reasoning for ditching two lap races make sense but I still find it a bit sad!
If anything I like the two lap races more simply because they are often more of a spectacle.
I have always thought that ALL races should be at least two laps but I guess that would pro-long the competition a bit, especially if the sunlight drops.

miseli wrote:I hope that the Moorebank boys weren't too disappointed about you knocking them out. I think that they would have otherwise gone on to really challenge the top few cars in the 2 lap races.

I'm 99% certain of this! Aether raced Blur on sunday morning and Aether was noticeably faster over the second lap so I don't know what happened.

Marc, I don't know if you noticed, but after the final when we raced I'm sure that Mike Couanis was closer to your test car than what Aether was over two laps, which I found a bit surprising. Did something happen to their car or was Blur just slow in the morning?

I hope that the Moorebank boys weren't too disappointed about you knocking them out. I think that they would have otherwise gone on to really challenge the top few cars in the 2 lap races.

I'm 99% certain of this! Aether raced Blur on sunday morning and Aether was noticeably faster over the second lap so I don't know what happened.

Marc, I don't know if you noticed, but after the final when we raced I'm sure that Mike Couanis was closer to your test car than what Aether was over two laps, which I found a bit surprising. Did something happen to their car or was Blur just slow in the morning?

redlands, in regards to blur racing aether on the sunday morning yes that did occur. the moorebank boys stayed late on the saturday afternoon testing various gear ratios for the 2 lap and 1 lap races. when facing blur on the sunday morning they had already discovered the correct gear ratio to be running in a 2 lap race whereas blur had not and had just begun testing at that time. though from the performances which you had probably whitnessed blur did not improve that much in relation to aether over the 2 lap races.

hence, it was extremely dissipointing to see the moorebank boys knocked out so early and if things had gone a different way im comfident to say that they would have easily taken out the title in the 2 lap races as that is the race format to which their cars are prodominatly set up for.

Hello all,

For anyone that's interested, scrutineering photos from the 2010 AIMSCC are now up on the Tas website at:

http://www.tassolarchallenge.org/?page=gallery

There are photos there of all the cars that competed except for one - Helios from Pembroke HS, SA.

Marc

Cheers for your efforts Marc

How is progress on the car data file?

I was also wondering if you could upload the 2nd race of the quarter final between Mike Couanis and the Winthrop car.

Thanks in advance